Justin Taylor Weighs In On The Elephant Room

The key word for him? Wisdom. Wisdom in the planning and in the approach on the part of the people involved. Time will tell if they were wise or not, but Taylor hits the nail on the head when he writes:

But I think the whole thing could have been better if conceived in a different way. 

The Elephant Room could have achieved virtually of the same results, perhaps better ones, without any of the negative relational repercussions and doctrinal confusion. 

How? By holding the conversations offline.

Read the whole post HERE

Let My People Read is Helping The Gospel Coalition

Hey everyone, I know it's been a while (work and Seminary have taken a toll) but I wanted to get back to the page to let you know that I'm still here, and that we're going to get into giving mode. Our first target is helping The Gospel Coalition. If you're Reformed and don't know about TGC shame on you! Ok, seriously, it is an organization of gospel centered pastors, writers, theologians, etc... who get together to promote sound, gospel centered, biblical teaching.

Over at Justin Taylor's Blog, he has challenged us to help out the ministry (which has contributed a lot to the body of Christ) and join in a unique effort to raise funds as the year ends. Let My People Read is a blog that supports any effort to bring sound teaching to the Body. As such, we are going to help raise support and awareness of this great ministry. Please use our donation widget to make a simple 10 dollar donation.You can also go to (and help promote!) our donation page. Our hope is to raise $800 by months end. I should also let you know that those of us who raise the most will get tickets to next years Gospel Coalition Conference. Not that that's why we're doing it, but it would be nice to win. Thanks again, and look out for some more writing from me as my time opens up.
Keep looking out for more book and movie reviews, as well as some of my fiction writing. Thanks again for your help.

Who is Jesus? How would you answer that today?

Jesus asked his disciples the question, "Who do you say that I am?". He made it clear that a vague answer was not enough. A definite answer to that question was the only one that could be life changing. Over at Pastoralia, Pastor Jason Coker, has been having people blog on a project where people give an answer to that question. Specifically the questions are: Who is Jesus? what has he done? and why does it matter?  I'm glad to know that thousands of years later, this question is still seen as pivotal to where a person stands with God.
One of the contributors is Pastor Ben Sternke. I was very impressed with his answer. It was clear, biblical, and relevant in the best sense of the word. I have hope that churches can actually present a gospel message like this without making it formulaic, fake sounding or worse: boring.  I'd like to put it here in full with a minor critique after that.

Who is Jesus Christ? Wow, where to start. Jesus is a lot of things. First, I should say he was a man who caused quite a stir around 2,000 years ago by claiming that the God who created the entire cosmos was working through his life to save the world from itself, to make everything right.

Which sounds incredibly cliché, doesn’t it? It’s easy to find nutcases like that today. The thing about Jesus, though, was that he backed up his claims by making things right with unusual power and effectiveness: delivering people from sickness and psychological oppression, bringing freedom from guilt and shame, challenging injustice, and teaching people how to live well.

Ultimately this put him on a collision course with the religious and political authorities of his day, because they had stock in keeping people fearful and needy. But instead of fighting them, Jesus allowed them to torture and kill him. Even those closest to him didn’t understand this. Why not fight to stay alive? They thought it was over after that.

Hang with me, because here’s where the story gets crazy. He didn’t stay dead. A few days later he was alive again, in a totally new way, like he’d gone through death and out the other side. He had actually conquered death by his own death and through his resurrection opened the door for everyone to enter into a truly blessed life in God’s family.

We enter into that life by becoming an apprentice of Jesus. It might sound kooky, but you can actually know Jesus today. You can really be with him and he will teach you how to live a blessed life in God’s family, just like him.

Pretty unlikely story, huh? Yet I find myself living in it every day.

I hope you saw what I saw. It's something I could share with anyone I know.  My one concern is one of personal sin. I know he touched on basically anything any of us would (and discipleship has been on my mind a lot lately) but I think we can also forget that our sin placed Christ on that cross as well. As I put it in my response, "Not only did people one day put Christ on that Cross, I did. My sin, my own contribution to the worlds wrongs, put him on there. He died to actually forgive that. If I didn’t have that, I’d be completely lost". The Apostle Paul put it like this:

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. (1 Corinthians 15:3,4)

That the Lord died to forgive our sins is pivotal to the gospel message. Without the justification of our past, there is no hope for the future, with it, our whole world changes. I'm glad for the people out there who are making sure the gospel is getting out to the masses clearly. I look forward to seeing more good work from this project.  I'd also like to include some video of people answering the very question of who Jesus is.

A Response to Paul Copan on Bad News Evangelism-Part 1

While on Facebook the other day, I caught an article posted by Dr. Michael Patton. For those who don't know, he is the founder and main teacher of a great program called The Theology Program (My church is currently going through it). Dr. Patton also has a very popular blog called Parchment and Pen that is worth visiting. However, a recent article he posted there by Dr. Paul Copan has left a lot of us confused. My response will begin here and continue tomorrow in another post. Ill start by saying that it deals with the use of bad news in evangelism. I'd like to quote him in full so there's no mistake:

We’ve seen them in all manner of places—on street corners, in parking lots, at craft fairs, outside stadiums. Sometimes they’re on wearing placards, admonishing hearers to “turn or burn.” Or perhaps they’re warning America of coming judgment and doom. Others may prefer challenging individual “sinners” on the street, exposing them to their failure to live up to the Ten Commandments. A common justification from those “witnessing” is: “You need to tell people the bad news before they can listen to the good news.” After all, isn’t the Law a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:24)? Isn’t this the reality of Romans 1-3?

I first want to point out that there seems to be a lumping together of people who legitimately use the law and judgment in their gospel presentation, and those who just preach hellfire and brimstone and are devoid of the gospel. We're already starting on a bad foot. But the difficulties continue. He goes on to say

I’m not denying hell, judgment, sin, or the need for repentance. Jesus saved his harshest message of judgment for the hard-hearted religious leaders of his day (e.g., Matthew 23), and he called on his hearers to turn/repent and align themselves with God’s kingdom agenda.

That said, Jesus had the strong reputation of being a “friend of sinners.” He reached out to the “unlikelies” of his day—those who, according to the religious authorities, were unlikely recipients of God’s kingdom blessings: tax gatherers, prostitutes, Gentiles, lepers, the ceremonially unclean, the demonized. Jesus let them know that God hadn’t forgotten them, that God was interested in them.

I think I know what he's saying. And I agree. We should not be afraid to speak to all sorts of people or be their friends. I know many wonderful Christians who have no problems with having friends and family who are gay, goths, geeks, etc... However Mr.Copan is mistaking the method for the message. We should make friends as a means to earn the right to be heard. Even the Apostle Paul told us to be wise as to how we treated unbelievers.But does that mean we leave out the bad news of the gospel? A point I'll come back to.

How many of those preaching divine judgment in our day do so with tears in their eyes (Philippians 3:18)? How many of them have the reputation of being “friends of sinners”? How many of them truly follow in the way of the Master? It’s a lot easier to preach a message of judgment than to exemplify Jesus, who actually got involved in the lives of others. ....Unfortunately, many of the law-first-grace-later messengers don’t exude a friend-of-sinners demeanor.

For a someone who has written a good book on apologetics (True For You But Not For Me) with lots of evidences, I see little evidence of what he's talking about. Mentioning the "way of the Master" I can tell who he means: Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. All I can say is that I have met them both and they practice what they preach. And they do it with comedy and courtesy. During a visit to their headquarters in Belflower, my brother and I happen to run into them. They kept us both is laughs and some great conversation. Right as we were getting ready to leave, someone from the power company came to look at their power box. Ray shook his hand, offered him a drink, and as they went looking for it, the last thing we heard was him say, "So let me ask you a question..." He later returned and said he was able to talk to him a little. No pushy attitude, no dour faces, no hellfire. There may be people (which I'v already highlighted) that may be graceless, but Copan barking up the wrong tree by hinting that about Ray and Kirk. I would also like to add, that when preaching the gospel, it isn't about tears, it isn't about laughs, it's about clarity and earnestness. Paul writes:

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11 (NIV)

He says "Unfortunately, many of the law-first-grace-later messengers don’t exude a friend-of-sinners demeanor." I will develop this idea later, but for now all I can say is that it is possible to lovingly start with God's law and sin and point people to the Savior. Whether you just met this person, or if they are a life long family member or friend. He continues:

It seems that we should be careful about a formulaic method of communicating the good news. After all, helping people connect with Christ is more a process than it is an event. This process includes friendship, the integrity of Christian character, a loving community, and time process the implications of Christ’s Lordship. (See Greg Boyd’sLetters from a Skeptic [Victor] that nicely illustrates the process—even if you or I may not agree with all of Boyd’s arguments.)

Again, I think he's mistaking the message for the method. And I think he's mistaking discipleship with the proclamation of the gospel. Having said that, there is a move in some circles, that before people believe, they belong. I'm not entirely opposed to that ideas (something for another blog). John Piper has called it "conceptualization" as differentiated from "contexualization". Some people may be interested and may need a lot of time with Christians to learn and connect. But again, to say that a bad news first MESSAGE is opposed to a friendship METHOD, misses the mark. My other concern is that he quotes Greg Boyd. He is a proponent of an open view of God and not exactly the person I would have picked. Indeed, I would have much more preferred him mentioning Evangelism Explosion, which has added friendship as a component of their evangelistic method.

This is where Dr. Copan starts talking about a few considerations involving evangelism and a bad news first message.

1. People will at some point need to be aware of the bad news, but are we the ones who have to bring this up?

He mentions that those who use a bad news first message (BNFM) can come off like storm troopers. Again, he brings up taking consideration for unbelievers and bad past church experiences. I agree, and it is for this reason that we should be wise in how we speak to others. However, I will say this again and again: he's confusing method for message.
I am also surprised that he then goes on to quote Blue Like Jazz and an example the author had with a radio station. He was asked to defend Christianity. Instead he wants to point the person to Christ. I have no problem with that. Greg Koukle of Stand to Reason has a great article on pointing people to Jesus. But remember, Jesus will always cause controversy. No matter how nice you are. I also take issue with something he says about 1 Peter 3. He writes:

Yet in 1 Peter 3, Peter exhorts wives of unbelieving husbands to focus on the way they live their lives—quietly, gently, virtuously—so that their husbands may be won without a word even though they didn’t believe the word of God (3:1). A virtuous life is a very attractive thing, and such a life may create a spiritual and moral longing in those previously disinterested in Christ—and this without a single word about anything, let alone sin!

Let me quote the verse he is talking about. 1 Peter 3:1-2 says:

¹Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, ²when they see your respectful and pure conduct. (Emphasis mine)

I think Dr. Copan is assuming that the husband in this example hasn't heard the Word and doesn't need to either. If anything, the fact that it says he doesn't BELIEVE the Word, probably means that he heard it and rejected it. Again, Dr. Copan has confused method with message. The wife may have given the message at one point, and now is showing through her testimony, that is, what it looks like.

2, I have met plenty of “the encountered” who report that those “witnessing” about the bad-news-first commonly come across sounding judgmental, legalistic, and morally-superior, arrogant, and so on.
Yes, rebels against God love darkness rather than light. But our focal point ought not be a guilt-finding mission. Our consciously taking on Paul’s chief-of-sinners title would go a long way in building bridges.


I have to admit that some people in their zeal without knowledge, can leave add to the sting of the gospel with bad manners, or a bad approach. We must develop a posture of humble boldness. But again, this is advice we can give to anyone, not just singling out one group and making it apply especially to them.


3. Like the prodigal son, most people already know they carry shame or guilt and are looking for relief, hope, acceptance, and friendship.


But what they ultimately need is the gospel. Again, I think he's mistaken the message for the method. And I do hope that those of use who use some sort of BNFM will have hearing ears and loving, giving hearts. But that can't change the message we proclaim.
As an additional point to this, Dr. Copan again missuses scripture. He quotes Romans 2:4. It states that" the kindness of God that leads to repentance". (Emphasis his) But again, I think we need to look at what the text is really saying.

¹Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. ²We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. ³Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? ⁴Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? ⁵But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. (Emphasis mine)

In context, we see that this verse means that people who think they're getting away just fine while judging others are in grave trouble. God's kindness to them (the air they breathe, the people they love, the food they eat) and God's patience (the fact he hasn't brought judgement on them is something to worry about. As a matter of fact, Paul uses this as a starting point in his gospel proclamation. In Acts 14:15-18 we see

¹⁵"Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them. ¹⁶In past generations he allowed all the nations to walk in their own ways. ¹⁷Yet he did not leave himself without witness, for he did good by giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and gladness." ¹⁸Even with these words they scarcely restrained the people from offering sacrifice to them. (emphasis mine)

The longer you take advantage of these things, the more wrath is being stored up. I think Dr. Copan has taken Romans 2:4 out of context and it shows gravely. He quotes Rodney Star as saying

“Hell fire-and-brimstone sermons to the contrary, people respond far more strongly religiously to a carrot than to a stick. This has long been recognized by missionaries.”

Again, Dr. Copan has lumped together a BNFM with hell-fire-and-brimstone preaching. He's painting a caricature, but not giving people like Comfort and many in the Reformed camp like him, a fair shake.

4. Certain contemporary evangelistic methods in America would be deemed culturally insensitive in non-American contexts.

This may be a somewhat legitimate complaint against a BNFM, but we do live in the American West. He mentions talking in terms of honor, power and shame to those from other cultures. I can understand that, but Paul lived in such a culture, and he had no problem mentioning sin, and man's responsibility to God. (Something I will mention at the end). For now, I will again note that we need contexualization and conceptualization. But that may change certain emphasis, but not the overall message.

5. How many of us came to trust in Christ because a stranger told us that we were sinners? Or did we come through friends or relatives who modeled an attractive, redeemed Christian life?


Again, this is confusing method and message. Dr. Copan is assuming that a winning testimony and BNFM are mutually exclusive. I've already dealt with that, so let's move on.


6 and 7 The idea that “this may be the non-Christian’s only chance to hear the gospel and she may not hear it again” often turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy...the “what if the person dies tomorrow?” question raises issues about our own view of God’s sovereignty


I think this these two concerns are something most people who take evangelism seriously face, so why only mention this as if this is a problem for people who use BNFM? He writes:

Sometimes well-meaning Christians tend to take the entire burden of another’s salvation upon their shoulders and fail to trust in a sovereign God who may use us to be a stepping stone in another’s life. In John 4, Jesus reminded his disciples that they were “reaping,” thanks to the faithful labors of others who had gone before them.

He may be right, that some of us forget where our part ends, and God's part starts. But again, is that a legitimate critique of BNFM users or of anyone who takes evangelism seriously? Indeed God does work sovereignly in many ways. I'm friends with a missionary couple in Taiwan. Before they left, they worked in a restaurant. One of their friend there was an outspoken Christian. One night, he was witnessing to one of their co-workers. As their conversation ended, the man said that if he died that night, he knew he was going to heaven. That night, as he drove through an icy Iowa street, his car sled and crashed killing him instantly. Needless to say, having those be the last words to his co-worker heard must have spoken powerfully. God's sovereignty does work mysteriously. So I hope we do wisely use every chance we get. It may be OUR last! He also writes:

Those touched by Jesus knew that he first was genuinely interested in them. Perhaps that friend-of-sinners approach has something going for it! The confrontational method diminishes the listening and unfolding process involved in evangelism. The gospel should be expressed in a holistic and relational manner. Otherwise it more often than not appears to be a judgmental sales pitch. (emphasis his)

Again he has mistaken the method for the message. And this is where I will finally respond to this. I have said that it is possible to be relational and yet to use a BNFM at the same time. I will illustrate this with two examples. If you want to read the whole story feel free to visit another blog where I talked about this. (HERE)

Recently, my pastor and I went to a local university campus to give away food while talking to students. One of the students just so happen to share a similar up bringing as me. As we talked, I was able to open my Bible and talk to him about God, Sin, and Christ. I even got to use the 10 Commandments and used something Dr. Copan mentions, talking about sin as slavery. While explaining these things to the guy I was talking to, I was able to relationally (talking while asking questions, not shouting) kindly (free burger!) and Biblically (we opened a Bible and read it in context) share the gospel. He even let me pray for him and gave me his email. Not terribly hard at all. Of course I was praying the whole time.

My second example comes from Jesus himself. When talking to the rich young ruler, he was careful to point him to the 10 Commandments. The Scripture says that he looked at him lovingly. And yet even with love, Christ could use the law of God to show a man his sin, his slavery to his money. We are under orders to do no less.


I'll respond to the rest of Dr. Copan's points tomorrow.

A Response to Dinesh D'souza

So who gets into heaven and why? According to Dinesh D'souza, only God knows, and they may not have to know Christ to do so. Last week while listening to Dennis Prager I caught his interview with Mr. D'souza about his new book: What's So Great About Christianity? . (A book I might recommend in time, withholding judgment so far). One of the questions he and Mr. Prager discussed was who gets into heaven. I guess at this point, seeing that Mr. D'souza was put forth as a Christian expert (His page would indicate he's Roman Catholic) he gave an answer that would be in line with what Prager believes. Here's an example:



So what was Dinesh's answer to the same kind of question? It came along these lines:

1) Abraham is mentioned as someone in heaven (referring to Abraham's bossom) and he never had faith in Christ.
2) We're never told who is in Heaven.
3) And what about that good Hindu who just never got a chance but lived in line with the law of Moses?(not an argument but an assertion that is supposed to settle the matter)

As a response to the first answer, I quote Paul himself as he states in Romans 4
1

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about–but not before God.3What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

I believe that answers two of Mr. D'souzas arguments. namely that Faith is required (Not by works of the law, Moses' or otherwise) but also that Abraham believed God. I might add, by even bringing Abraham up, doesn't that at least tell us whom IS in heaven? Now he might wonder about all people who believe in God and have faith in him. But I ask: which God? Again, Paul tells us in Galatians 3:

6Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”7Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Notice that All people have to come to faithin the same God as Abraham did, and have the same kind of faith to have the same end: being in God's family (which will eventually be with him in Heaven). Notice also that this good news (gospel) is what Abraham believed (In embryonic form it would seem because is says Scripture anticipated the whole story). He believed the gospel, now that we have the full version, that alone is what saves people. It alone is the bridge to being in God's family. And if you don't believe me, let me quote Hebrews 11. In the great chapter of faith it tells of the end of those who believed:

14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own.15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.16Instead, they were longing for a better country–a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

Sounds a lot like Heaven. I refer you to Revelation 4 as well:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.

10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”

God himself has taken the initiative to save a people for himself. Who are they? Those who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved (Romans 10:12-13)

As for people who live in accord with the law of Moses? Romans 3:

9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.10As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;

11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.

12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

We'd better take a closer look at what the Bible says about who does and doens't go to Heaven. To ignore it is to ignore God's master plan.

Two Ways to Live

Yep, there are only two. Here's the story.....

What do you think?

An Interview with God

Something to ponder.

Heavenly Rewards Calculator-how good are you?

Ok, thanks again to Chris Roseburough of Alittleleaven.com Here's a test to take and see how obedient you are. Take it and see what rewards you'll get in heaven. If you're like me, you'll get the same message I got. Here's the TEST And if you want to get background into why the calculator was made, you can listen to the radio show HERE What do you guys think?

********Update***
thanks to a concerned reader for pointing out a problem with the links. Take the test and come back here to tell me what you think. I have my own thoughts about Chris's view of heavenly rewards.

Mind Game

Click HERE to see the back-it's a huge surprise!